Curse

Mav · May 22, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

If its ok for that one person to watch the cinematic while the other 7 don't want to, the system needs a rework;

- Either let people who voted skip, to be let out of viewing the cinematic while the others can still view it. Their choice to move on or be left behind.

- Let the party leader dictate what goes on. Other than inviting people in town, party leader is a joke, a shame and just a farce. Once your in a instance, you are powerless as a party leader. If someone is an ass and purposely aggros stuff, you can do nothing but let him die if possible and not rez him, run away or go back to town and kick him out of the party. Same thing for cinematics, except you have 0 options other than wait for the cinematic to be over and then go back to town and kick that one person (and YES, I have gone back to town after a cinematic as a party leader and removed people who do not skip)

- The one person who wishes to view the cinematic, hurts the entire party. By being that 1 guy, out of 8 people, you are pissing off 7 other people so much to the point we don't want to heal you, rez you or have you in our party. I've, as said, been in parties many times where we tell everyone to skip (and by we its a 99% group concencus to skip) and that person doesn't so we start over, without he/she in our group.

Is it the players fault theres no way to view cinematics outside of the gameplay? No. Is it our fault we want to skip missions? No. But all in all it costs us time and as proven there are bugs. Several missions including Elonas, have I spawned after the cinematic to find my body dead with 1 or more mobs standing there....still attacking us. I don't blame the developers of the game, I blame that one guy who refused to skip when 7 others wanted too.

And I've said it twice, I'll try for number three and hope it gets through to some people;

The needs of the many, are greater than the needs of the few.

If there was a nuclear bomb and the only way to stop the world from dying was you being locked in a room with the bomb as it goes off, you can damn well bet your ass would be in that room either by choice or by force, cause 1 life is not justification for billions. (ok, im exaggerating but you get the point, 1 person doesnt justify pissing off and ruining the rest of the missions fun for 7 others).

Mav · May 22, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

This is a team game. Those are "Cooperative Missions" you're taking part in. That means putting aside selfish desires for 60 seconds to allow other people to have their fun too. Why should you have the authority to deny someone else part of the game they paid for? You're not losing anything by sitting through the cutscene, other than a minute (or possibly two) of your time. But if you had the ability to deny them viewing the cutscene, they'd have to re-run the entire mission again just to see it, wasting maybe another full hour of their time -- that is, assuming their next team didn't skip it too.

See my above reply.

The party has a leader who has no power in a mission

The party as a whole has a greater say in things, that one single person, has been that way since the dawn of time almost (or at least the dawn of democracy)

Kirb · May 22, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Chill out and wait the 45-60 seconds. It's not going to kill you, and the person who hasn't seen it has the right to see it. Jeez, what whining.

eA-Zaku · May 22, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

He's right, you know. It's not that bad. I've had to sit through plenty of cut-scenes. Doesn't make me nearly half as mad as the other stupid stuff some of my parties have done.

Replay option = solves everything
Majority = ruins game for first-timers
Leader Power = why...why would a person form a party to re-do missions? Other than a select few...

Until then, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Guild Wars as a game is pretty good. Good enough for me to put up with the few idiots I run into and rewatch a few poorly directed cutscenes.

Mercury Angel · May 22, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirb

Chill out and wait the 45-60 seconds. It's not going to kill you, and the person who hasn't seen it has the right to see it. Jeez, what whining.

Unless it does.
If you'd read, you'd understand that sometimes it CAN kill you to see the movie.

The guy was visibly being hit by attacks during the movie, and right afterwards, he died because of that. And boy was he pissed off. I didn't say anything, because there's really not much to say.

Someone caused the death of a party member by not wanting to skip something they hadn't seen yet. It'd be selfish of him to let that happen... And it'd be selfish of the party to deny him the right to see the movie.

I really can't fault the players, but I CAN and DO fault the lack of foresight of ArenaNet. I mean, how the heck can you be forced to stand there and do nothing, in a cutscene, while your body is being ravaged by enemies? Why is that even possible?

Deagol · May 22, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I'd suggest the text "x out of y want to skip" is removed, would solve the entire problem.

It would also mean nobody felt pressured to skip out the story because of some impatient kids who should probably play a fps instead of an rpg.

There didn't use to be a skip button, but ArenaNet added it because it was silly to show the scene if *everybody* had seen it before. It is obviously not silly to show it if *somebody* has seen it before.

Personally I press skip if I have watched the scene recently *and* everybody else has pressed skip, in order not to put pressure on anybody.

And no, you do *not* get killed during a cut scene. I have stod many times with low healt being hammered on by enemies during a cut schene, and when the scene is over everything is as it started. The sound effect make it sound like you are taking a beating, but it only happens on the client, not the server, so it has no effect.

Xelig · May 22, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

The party as a whole has a greater say in things, that one single person, has been that way since the dawn of time almost (or at least the dawn of democracy)

Guild Wars groups do not automatically incorporate a democratic system of team politics by default. That is for you to work out with your team in chat beforehand. That one person has more to lose from missing the cutscene than you do from sitting through it, so consider it a situation where each person has the power to veto. Just like they could, at any point, log out and leave you with only 3 of 4 people in the team -- they can veto further progress of group at any time with the F12 key. If more people realised this, before getting antsy and throwing orders and insults around, everyone's game would run a lot smoother -- I've already lost count of the number of times some idiot in our group thought it smart to mouth off at a teammate, only to be kicking themselves afterwards when we had to abandon the mission because that teammate logged out.

Xelig · May 22, 2005, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

If you'd read, you'd understand that sometimes it CAN kill you to see the movie.

The guy was visibly being hit by attacks during the movie, and right afterwards, he died because of that.

This is quite obviously unintentional and should be /bugged. It's not good justification for being able to force other people to miss out on game content.

eA-Zaku · May 22, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Nicely put, Xelig. Now all the movie watchers can feel confident that they can screw over anyone pushing them around for enjoying the GAME THAT THEY PURCHASED...

EDIT: To put a bit more effort and meaning into my post, I'll add this. Anyone who has ever watched an entire cutscene doesn't deserve the right to complain about people making them wait. If you've watched a cut scene, any cut scene, even if the whole party opted not to skip, that person you're waiting for is exercising the same right that you chose to exercise when you watched a cut scene. And I know most likely 90-95% of those "anti-cutscene" people have watched at least 1 or 2 cutscenes. Probably all of them on their first play through the game.

Kaylynn Of Ascalon · May 22, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

if i want to watch the cinematic and you don't...too bad you are watching it.

I'll tell you what. The cinematics give the game a way of telling the story, piecing the story together. I for one want to see each one. if you were able to skip the cinematics even though I didn't want to then I would be cheated out of the game that I payed for.

even though I have re played many missions over to help out fellow players, and even though I already saw the cut scenes and really don't want to watch them again I still sit through them because the other player has not seen it yet and IMO deserves to watch them.

bottom line is a few minutes it takes to view one of the cut scenes will not kill anyone...OMG 5 minutes of my life gone....get over it.

Mercury Angel · May 22, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deagol

And no, you do *not* get killed during a cut scene. I have stod many times with low healt being hammered on by enemies during a cut schene, and when the scene is over everything is as it started. The sound effect make it sound like you are taking a beating, but it only happens on the client, not the server, so it has no effect.

That's your personal experience, and mine says otherwise. The guy was dead as soon as the cutscene ended, and everyone else was fully healed. Perhaps the monster killed him in the time it takes to switch between cutscene and in-game mode, but the end result is the same, he died.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

This is quite obviously unintentional and should be /bugged. It's not good justification for being able to force other people to miss out on game content.

Which I acknowlege. If there're 6 people out of 8 wanting to skip the cutscene, I don't click skip so that the person who does want to see it doesn't feel pressured to skip it (If I'm not one of them), except when it's the same team doing the same mission, such as an infusion run. I don't want anybody to miss things on my account.
However, by the same token, I do feel bad about causing others to sit there doing nothing (although I like to use cutscenes as restroom breaks, getting a snack, etc. XD), when they want to be in the fray, having an action packed battle. Yet, I side with the person that wants to see the cut-scene, because to see it in the future would require them to play through the mission again, which would take a lot more time than for the people to sit there patiently waiting, and who's to say if they play it again with another human group, the same result of skipping the movie won't happen?

And I must admit, playing through the game again, I'm pretty bored of the cutscenes. I mainly play with a good friend and guildmate who's also seen everything, and henchmen, and this way, we can zoom through all of the boring parts. However, we got a new guild member that hadn't started too long ago, and was on the same mission as us, so she came with, and I didn't even bother pushing skip. Definitely not going to make a guild member feel at all pressured to not see everything.

At least a second screen for the people who've clicked "skip" with a cute little mini-game would suffice to entertain. Ever played Warlords for the Atari? There was a special little easter egg bonus on the game Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete hidden within the Making of ... disc. It had this crazy extreme version for up to 8 players that'd be a perfect low graphical quality game to do while you're bored :P

http://www.atariage.com/software_pag...areLabelID=593

Anything small that'd entertain the people who don't want to watch the movie, even just the chat bar being open and visible to those who've pushed "skip" would be fine. After seeing things once, I always like adding in a little commentary, and having to wait until after the movie is over, I often forget what I was going to mention. Nothing like a little making fun of poor voice acting, or adding in your own lines to entertain yourself among friends.

Just a couple of suggestions to show that the answer to (well, a compromise anyway) the problem isn't quite as black and white as, "skip or don't skip". There are such things as alternatives that I'm sure people would enjoy, possibly even more so than the original prospects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylynn Of Ascalon

if i want to watch the cinematic and you don't...too bad you are watching it.

See above. This is the kind of attitude that I hate seeing. The 'live with it or get out' attitude, against grind, change, etc. There're always ways to make things better, and nothing would change if people didn't make their opinions known. I'm not anti-cutscene, and if you read through my posts, you'll find that I'm very understanding to people who want to see them. And the way the current system is, I would always choose to allow a person to see a cutscene than skip it if they want to see it.
However, that doesn't mean I'm not insanely bored while watching it again. Is there something wrong with making that opinion known, and asking for something to be done about it? As above, it's not a matter of saying I deserve to skip a cutscene because I'm bored and my desires trump those of otherse, it's a matter of I'm bored, and I'd like something different available if I'm going to be stuck watching someting I've already seen. Whether it's skipping the cutscene and being there inside the mission again waiting for the other members to finish watching or skip, chatting, dancing, whatever, playing a minigame, or just being able to chat with teammates while the movie is playing, it'd be enough.
In a cooperative online game, one of the best parts about it is sharing the experience with other people. During the cutscene, you lose the ability to communicate and share with other people, which is sorely dissapointing. And if the content isn't new to you, you have nothing. Is there anything wrong with saying you want something there, where there's nothing for you?

DismalClown · May 22, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

I know the game is relatively new

<snip>

the needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few

<snip>

I see, so you and 6 other people got to see some game content while 1 person doesn't get to, just because you got the game first? What if you were always that one person and ended up missing all the cinematics.

Either you are not thinking it through or you're a big ass.

BlaineTog · May 22, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of one person.

You're oversimplifieing things.

7 people have seen the Cinematic. 1 hasn't. Cinema scene plays. This looks like the 7 are getting screwed, and they kinda are. But what about the other way?

7 people have seen it, 1 hasn't, and the scene is skipped. Well, those 7 didn't have a few minutes to wait, but the 8th guy missed out on what might have been a huge plot point. If he's willing to sit through it, he's obviously interested in the plot.

Overall, it's several people being inconvenienced in a minor way vs. a few people being deprived of an inportant part of the game.

Although it might be a good idea to let people skip it individually, what if its in the middle of a level? If they go off by themselves while some wait behind, they'll probably die, and thats not good for anyone.

Mav · May 22, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deagol

And no, you do *not* get killed during a cut scene. I have stod many times with low healt being hammered on by enemies during a cut schene, and when the scene is over everything is as it started. The sound effect make it sound like you are taking a beating, but it only happens on the client, not the server, so it has no effect.

Please do not make me go do Elonas Reach mission, again, in order to prove you wrong.

I did that mission a total of 58 times. Now the majority were failures case we either got zerged, ran out of time, or accidently aggroed too much. BUT there was at least 5+ times where we'd enter the cinematic at 100% health and energy with no mobs in sight, then when it was over we'd be dead with Minotaurs standing over our body and the Ghost npc begins attacking them cause he's got their aggro now.

It's been proven, I'm not lying about it, other people aren't lying about it, so you're basically calling us liars. Cheers mate on that one.

BlaineTog · May 22, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

It's been proven, I'm not lying about it, other people aren't lying about it, so you're basically calling us liars. Cheers mate on that one.

Don't be dramatic.

I think it's clear that you arn't supposed to be able to die during a cut scene. Thus, expect a fix soon (or, at least, expect a fix if you use the /bug command whenever it happens).

Mav · May 22, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DismalClown

I see, so you and 6 other people got to see some game content while 1 person doesn't get to, just because you got the game first? What if you were always that one person and ended up missing all the cinematics.

Either you are not thinking it through or you're a big ass.

You are assuming I watched the cinematics the first time around.

The only cinematic I've ever actually sat and read to see what was going on, was the cinematic that you enter as you're leaving pre searing into post searing. After I learned there were various cinematics that simply tell the games story, I began skipping every one of them. I didn't watch that one to simply learn the story, read the story or enjoy it, I wanted to know wtf it was and why it was interupting the middle of gameplay.

It's not a matter of who got to the game first, it's a matter of the broken party system mixed with bugs in cinematics (dying while in one for example). If I can become the leader of a party, then as leader I should be allowed to make choices for the group. And no, this does not apply to henchmen, cause once you get to end parts of the game henchmen aren't going to cut it (get to that one desert mission where you have to hold/capture the various portal crystal things, you need real live players that can communicate).

people say "wah its 5 minutes last boo ****ing hoo" add up those 5 minutes, with ALL the missions (some longer, some shorter obviously), multiple that times 4 cause yes I do have 4 characters I play and level, that shit adds up real quick.

Mav · May 22, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaineTog

You're oversimplifieing things.

7 people have seen the Cinematic. 1 hasn't. Cinema scene plays. This looks like the 7 are getting screwed, and they kinda are. But what about the other way?

7 people have seen it, 1 hasn't, and the scene is skipped. Well, those 7 didn't have a few minutes to wait, but the 8th guy missed out on what might have been a huge plot point. If he's willing to sit through it, he's obviously interested in the plot.

Again, you are assuming people have seen the cut scene. I've lost count of how many times, and parties, I've been in where we get to a mission none of us have done before, and everyone but 1 guy skips the cinematic, NOT because we've seen it but because we don't WANT to see it.

And as for the 1 guy missing it, please read my idea for a fix; 8 people go into a cinematic. 7 skip, 1 doesn't. (or whatever numbers you wish to choose skip or don't). The 7 are exited from the cinematic and proceed onward if possible. The 1 stays in cinematic and watches it. If the 1 falls behind, that was his or her choice to watch the story, if the 7 choose to move forward they are possibly down 1 person and choose to continue with a smaller party. It works both ways on that one, everyone wins. You may say its unfair to the guy who chooses to watch since he/she may have to play catch up, at the same time its unfair to those that do not want to watch (for whatever reasons) so either way one side is getting shitted but at least in this form it's more fair to both sides than it currently is.

eA-Zaku · May 22, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Perhaps it all comes down to if you dont want to watch the movies...be prepared to play with henchmen.

Mav · May 22, 2005, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylynn Of Ascalon

if i want to watch the cinematic and you don't...too bad you are watching it.

And this is why PvE in the end blows in GW. I've beaten the game PvE with 1 character, at this point I'm grinding for new items in PvP (no I didnt watch all the cinematics or seen any). Why does PvE blow? Your attitude of "if its not my way too bad" cause in PvE in other games (on normal or pvp servers where you still have to level your pvp character) the party has the ability to turn on you. If I had 1 single gold piece for every time a party I was in would turn around and gank the guy who refuses to skip, in your manner for example, I'd be the richest man in the game cause we'd kill that person each and every time. but we can't, we can't do anything about it. we can click a button and pray that the entire party clicks it other wise we waste time and in some cases, risk our mission (due to dying in the cinematic).

Mav · May 22, 2005, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by eA-Zaku

Perhaps it all comes down to if you dont want to watch the movies...be prepared to play with henchmen.

.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

And no, this does not apply to henchmen, cause once you get to end parts of the game henchmen aren't going to cut it (get to that one desert mission where you have to hold/capture the various portal crystal things, you need real live players that can communicate).